Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: But if you tell that, oh, we managed to reduce cost per customer by, you know, by 10%. Oh well that's kind of, that's, that's completely different story for executive. One of the key ideas that we have is that we like what, what we want to actually achieve with these dashboards is to give customers a very, very quick start into connecting them into insights which they can get from the data. They took our dashboards but they completely built like absolutely mind blowing finops home baked tool on top of this. You build it, you run it, but you're also responsible for cost effectiveness or for the cost of this. So it adds more responsibilities and accountabilities. But at the same time without this it would be, it would be hard to drive the change. So we started to build and experiment with visualizations and the dashboards in quicksight and we realized that it's actually possible not only build insightful stuff but also to use quicksight to share the templates with every single customer for finops community. Also Genai brings quite interesting challenging in challenges not just how to use it for finops but also how to track the, you know, the cost of Genai services, how to optimize them.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: So welcome everyone to a new episode of the Finops Weekly podcast. Today we are honored to have one of the masters of visualization in FinOps. We have Yuri from AWS. How are you Yuri?
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Hi. Hi. Victor Demian. I'm great. Thank you for having me today.
Yeah. How are you?
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Doing well, doing well.
Yeah. An honor to have you here. And today we also have our co, co host, Damian. Damian, how are you?
[00:01:48] Speaker C: Well, thank you. It's very special event, you know that I love the dashboard so it's, I'm very excited about having Yuri here.
So I guess, you know, it's a new year, 2025, I guess. Yuri, you can tell us a little bit what, what is going on with the dashboards. Are you going to see anything that you can share with us about what is going to happen this year?
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So we can, we can definitely start from that. And first of all I would like to make a quick summary of what we actually delivered in 2024 in you know, cloud intelligence dashboards.
And it's quite, it was like quite an intense year.
We released quite a lot of updates to existing dashboards such as Kudos. We released the whole five new significant version improvements, added a lot of new insights and visibility for FinOps community such as tracking of extended support, more insights for IEML workloads such as we Added comprehensive visibility for bedrock for Amazon Q the quite hot services at the moment and also some significant improvements for DynamoDB visualization for management and governance services. And we also released 10 new dashboards which cover different areas from containers cost allocations to something more general like focus and also dashboards which go beyond FinOps health events support cases. So because the concept of getting data and applying BI to a data it's pretty much generic, it can be used for any domain. So we really expanding now to more domains such as we're going into operations. We also plan to go more deeply in security to cover things like Security Hub for example.
Yeah we also published four customization guides because one of the interesting things about our solution that it's fully customizable and it's fully open source. So every single part it's available for everyone to review how it's built from deployment automation to the calculations on the dashboards, how we calculate anything, how we come up with all this visualization. So we also publishing customization guides because customers can see how it's built but they can also build on top. So that's, that's very important because we use these dashboards not only as a solution for customers but also as a like a place where they can learn how they can build similar stuff. So we want to like accelerate their Finops journey, their start into the data.
[00:05:09] Speaker C: Very intense year actually was every time that I saw the post on LinkedIn it was wow, more dashboard.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah I I posted an article before end of year with our year end review so if anyone is interested you can read But I hope 2025 will be even more more intense and more exciting and interesting. We are working on quite significant initiatives as well so roadmap is pretty full but if anyone has some ideas feedback of what they would like to see new in cloud intelligence dashboards in 2025 drop me a line. Would be super happy to hear that to discuss with anyone.
[00:05:56] Speaker C: Excellent. Great invitation. So everybody's open to share with you. So come on guys and but this also you know I always wanted to know how all this started and how you how you got into this. You are now leading all this dashboard initiative which I love as I mentioned before so it's very interesting to for us to know how it all began.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Yeah that's great question. Not often I'm asked about that. So super happy to talk about this and I want to start you know with recognition of the team because all this deliveries that we've done in 2024 and before it all the hard Work of the team and all the contributors, all the authors of the dashboards and you know who actually very, very customer obsessed Amazonians who want to bring basically the knowledge which we have as SMEs to every single customer as a self service tool. It all started with I think in 2020 in around at the end of the 2020.
It started as basically several ideas between few technical account manager managers like me and back then my colleague Timur and we also partnered with Ellie Whitman back then. So we started to build and experiment with visualizations and the dashboards and quicksight and we realized that it's actually possible not only build insightful stuff but also to use quicksight to share the templates with every single customer. And when we started to show our visualizations to our colleagues, to customers, the first question was oh, it looks great, but how can I, how can I get it? How can I use it with my customers? So that's where we realized that we need to shape it in some form of product.
And we released two first dashboards, it's cost Intelligent Intelligence dashboard which was focused more on high level insights and then following with Kudos dashboard which was taking this high level insights and also enriching with a lot of operational details. So that's where we went into a lot of resource level visibility, which resources you can optimize not just seeing the trends but also like getting into resource IDs and all the details. And this is very, very well resonated with internal communities because our dashboard is also used internally and we've got overwhelming amount of feedback which actually is reused until you know, until today. So one of the key parts of our solution is that we take a lot of field feedback and we iterate, we release new versions, we try to elaborate all the new ideas which appear. So basically we started to incrementally add new features, new ideas.
Then we started to receive feedback from service teams, you know, something like visuals which show you inventory of your ODCRs or some visuals which appear like for backup and storage. They come from different service teams, from solution architects who work deeply with service teams. So it's so many knowledge there and which we actually were able to bring to any customer as a self service tool so they can deploy in their accounts.
Yeah, and since then we had a lot of work with many, many customers also getting their feedback. And by the way, I just want to thank to every customer who sharing the feedback about how they use our dashboards what we could improve, what is missing because we are always open to hear this Feedback it's literally gold for us.
And yeah, so it's like after I think four and a half years of incremental improvements of this, we are where we are.
And one of the key ideas that we have is that what we want to actually achieve with these dashboards is to give customers a very, very quick start into connecting them into insights which they can get from the data. So because every customer can enable custom usage report, every customer can get this data. But digging into raw data is very, very challenging. Believe me as a person who build a lot of this. So it's quite hard. So what we want is to just simplify a start for customers to get them this tooling where they don't need to pay any license fees or things like that. Just quickly get up to speed, deploy these templates and pay only for underlying services which they used and then see what they can build on top. Because we have a lot of examples from BMW where we published a joint case study where they took our dashboards but they completely built absolutely mind blowing finops home baked tool on top of this. So I'm super inspired from this kind of stories as well. So yeah and then just want to say thanks again to our entire team, you know who, who helps us to drive this forward over these years.
So yeah and as you can see now ideas exploding with the new dashboards like the last one which we released is for Amazon Connect very specific dashboard for customers who these call centers and use Connect and like it's apparently to for single service you can come up with like four or five tabs of you know, visuals with insightful visualizations which can help customers to understand what actually we paying for. You know what we can do with this.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: All these are very good points because I also I use Kudos and cloud intelligent dashboards also for like you say you can install it very easily, ramp it up, have an environment set and then you can copy it as an analysis and do changes because it provides all the information very well architecture and very well which and I think it's very excellent. And for those who are listening also they can look at all the dashboards online in the workshop.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:17] Speaker C: Maybe we can share afterwards the link and they can play and see what the information and all the, all the dashboards and all the information they have which is very, very very good. And wow, very excited to know all the this information. Right Victor?
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it's what what I was thinking while you were saying about all the news and all the, all the the goals of the of the dashboards is like we are seeing a lot of the trend of moving the insights from the cloud data information to the business value. And here the main thing is translating that information to KPIs and to OKRs and all this stuff. So how do you think these, even the dashboards or in general the information that you can provide on this visualization tool should connect to the KPIs and if you have some like what are the KPIs or what are you seeing from the customers that which KPIs are there, they're providing them the most value. I assume it's mostly depending on the case because each business has its own KPIs, but I assume there are some generalities there.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It's also very good question because it's, you know, finops. It's not only optimization, you know, it's also being able to understand what business value you get out of the, out of your investment to the cloud. So I usually, when I think about KPIs I usually split them into three categories so we can go from bottom to top.
First is like cost efficiency KPIs. It's basically KPIs which build around how well you're leveraging one or another cost efficiency or cost effectiveness opportunity. For example, you know, like how what portion of what percentage of our EBS volumes is running on GP2 out of all general purpose volumes or out of all volumes or what is our savings plans coverage or what is our percent of EBS snapshots which are older than one year? Or what is our percentage of S3 storage which is standard storage over you know, entire S3 storage. So basically very, very low level, very technical KPIs based on pretty much every optimization opportunity or you know, percentage of. Right. Sizing savings opportunities out of your total Spanish again. So like basically those KPIs are quite powerful for technical teams because if they, you know, look at them, they basically tell what you can do to improve. You know, if it's like GP3 adoption, you kind of, they guide you. Okay, you need to use more GP3. You know, it's like, or I don't know if it's adoption of Graviton, they kind of again self explanatory, you need to adopt Graviton. So it's a power of Those cost effectiveness KPIs because when organization starts to promote them, it becomes, it builds habits within the technical teams. So you know, if we have like 10, 20, 30 KPIs like that and we follow them, we can it basically signal for engineers what we are tracking for? And here what is important for companies to note that every time when you get some success story, someone improves something, optimized something, every success story could be turned into KPI if we figured out some new optimization opportunities. Like for example, oh, I don't know, we have multiple cloud trails which duplicated and things like that. So why do we need it? We optimize them. It could be defined as your KPI. Like you should not have duplicating cloud trails because you know every second one and every, every not first one is paid and stuff like that. So all like always when you optimize something, think about turning it into cost efficiency KPIs. But obviously it would be a lot of them because you know they are very, very low level. When you start thinking about business impact of your optimizations, you need to kind of have a bit less KPIs but more kind of connecting dots and connecting this to business. And that's where I come with a second layer which I call usually infrastructure unit cost. So it's when you start measuring the average cost per for example gigabyte of data for storage or average cost of normalized instance hour.
And that's a higher level measure which can help you to assess, okay, so what's our cost of infrastructure over time? And when we optimize something on this lower level level KPIs we should see reflection into infrastructure unit cost. Right. And vice versa. If we see that infrastructure unit cost increasing, then we can, it gives us a signal of how that we need to dive deeper into this cost efficiency KPIs and understand why our infrastructure unit cost increased. Yeah, and the beauty of infrastructure unit cause that you can build those metrics or KPIs just out of constant usage data. You don't need any third kind of your custom metrics or something like that. So you can pretty much build it by dividing cost by usage. Right. So it's very easy. And we have this kind of things in cloud intelligence dashboards. We allow you to see infrastructure unit cost in many, many dashboards. And the third layer, it's where you actually can measure the impact on the business. It's business unit cost. Right. So it's where you go into this so called unit cost economy where you start tracking the cost per your business driver, such as cost per customer, cost per transaction. So that's where you actually connect all your infrastructure to the business. And those metrics are usually very well understood by executives, by financial people.
Because if we Tell someone we, I don't know, optimized S3 storage by 20,000 per month. What will it tell to business people who think about revenue, who think about margins? It's like, like it, it, was it budgeted, was it like forecasted, was it planned? Like what, what, what, what does it mean to our business? You know, like. But if you tell that, oh, we managed to reduce cost per customer by, you know, by, by, by 10%. Oh wow, that's kind of, that's, that's completely different story for executives.
Yeah, so that's, that's, that's, that's the layers of KPIs and, and, but, but to build business unit cost KPIs, you need to be able to join your business data and your infrastructure data and that's where it comes very handy to use because you cannot bring your business data to default AWS cloud financial management services. So that's where it's very handy comes things like Quicksight where you can take the existing quicksight dashboards and joins it. Like bring your own data there because like quicksight supports a lot of data integrations and actually add your business metrics to existing dashboards. So it's very, very powerful. Actually at Re Invent we had a workshop this year where we covered this. So basically how to measure impact of your business, impact of your optimizations and where we like step by step, everyone built during the workshop this business unit cost dashboard by Jo joining together cost and business data.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Oh that's, that's super cool. I think the classification was great. I mean I think it's super valuable to have this clarified and separated and also yeah, like you can do these amazing connections with, with the, the tools that you know, the providers have in this case aws. Like you can mix a lot of things and I know Damian knows a lot about quicksight and all the combinations that, that you can actually do there. So moving on a bit on these deep dice and these connections, I want, you know, a bit like now we have addressed the business part and now I want to move a bit on the engineering part. So we have the dashboards, but these dashboards could or could not be managed by engineers. So let's say that these dashboards are managed by a Central FinOps team. How do you think the that team or the company in general should translate this information to the engineers at what kind of cultures or what kind of behaviors should be implemented to help the engineers actually make the optimizations there?
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like million dollar question basically. Yeah, that's why I ask it yes, yes.
Every organization approaches in a different way. I would say first question should be why would engineers ever go to this dashboard? You know, engineers have their, you know, like operational metrics dashboards, they have their performance dashboards. They have some latency, some maybe availability dashboards. And so many, so many things they usually care about. And then we bring into picture cost.
I would say we need to answer question. Why would engineers prioritize this over everything else they have? And that's where cultural aspect comes into play. So it should be very clear for engineers that it's priority because if organization recognizes something else like business grow, growth, I don't know, maybe availability, if you know, it was a problem of customer sentiment or something like that, if organization embrace or recognize those things and cost is never in, you know, highlights and recognition that will build a pattern where engineers will focus on other things.
They wouldn't have intent, but if they will see that you actually recognize cost awareness. You recognize, you know, this frugal mindset, a frugal approach to architecting things that and actually like the frugal architect principles by Werner Vogels. It's like they're just amazing. So if you start as organization more highlights this kind of stories, these things recognize people it first of all it will give them a hint, oh, like we need to do more of this. So once they have some motivation to go to this dashboard, then that's place where you actually need to find some champions. Yes. So like you need to find the champions within the different engineering teams and have like, you know, like a squad of finops ambassadors, Finops champions, frugality gurus, frugality masters, like whatever you call them. But you need to build a network of very technical people who work and understand all the depths, not just of AWS pricing structure and stuff like that, but also how applications build. Because sometimes to improve, to optimize cost, you actually need to optimize your code. So you need to build this network of these technical people who can speak with, who understand every breadth and depth of their applications and then leverage this technical people through actually championing what you want to achieve, actually sharing the knowledge how they use these dashboards, have some enablement sessions, but again relying more on sharing the knowledge through champions and trying to embrace this culture within every team. But, but you know, if you just run some training for entire organization, would it work? Well, in most cases, maybe not. But if you try to have some kind of a bundle, try to organize something like a bundle, a series of trainings and some champions who highlight some Best practices within the teams who can explain new engineers that hey, here are the places where you need to come and have a look. Here are the most common patterns which we need to have a look for our team. Because some teams might run on, you know like something like more focused on things like I don't know, Kafka, some messaging, streaming. Some teams are more storage oriented. For them it would be more important to keep an eye on DynamoDB databases and things like this.
So every team is unique. You know what I learned is there is no kind of one size fits all. So here it's more like having organizational alignment and cultural shift make sure that it's clear for everyone that it's priority having the network network of your champions and the collection of success stories enablement like some videos, some office hours like phenops, office hours that people can comment and ask some questions and things like newsletters. So a lot like whatever imagination will drive you.
And in all of this you need to highlight what has been done, how it was discovered, which tools were used and basically how you came to the sequence. And after that you can start looking in also in things like automation. I mean maybe in parallel with this, so not necessary after. But think also about automating something of what has been done. Maybe also preventing some stuff to happen, maybe setting up some organizational SCPs, tech policies and stuff like that.
Yeah, and the last part here, what is very important is, is also I think it, it everything most likely wouldn't work if there is no accountability from, from the engineering teams. So they should be really accountable for the cost effectiveness, cost efficiency of the applications. They should own the cost. You know like I really like comparison with DevOps where you know we, we call DevOps you build it, you run it. Yeah. So with FinOps you build it, you run it. But you're also responsible for cost effectiveness or for the cost of this. So it adds more responsibilities and accountabilities. But at the same time without this it would be hard to drive the change. So you really need to push this to the people who drive the change, who actually can trigger the cost impact, who actually everyday deploy workloads, make decisions which actually influence the cost.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: No, I totally agree that especially the comparison with DevOps and security. Like you have your ownership of your security failures even though you could have like a central security team that helps you prevent you making these mistakes. Like for example in this case the FinOps team, then you are responsible for your, the security of your tool. So you can like dive deep and see like if this cost. This is if you are making cost enablement of the architecture is efficient on cost level or not. Same with DevOps like as you mentioned. You are. You own the time that you take to deploy something or how much it fails or how much it is available. So you should own the cost pattern. And once we focus more on the ownership which I think we are moving on since the costs are being higher. So now it's a problem that before it wasn't.
I think we will get more results and more finops like advanced practices. And we are seeing that in businesses that are more cost let's say aware such as for example airlines which play on a very low margin roles that they steal. For example the Ryanair case. They play a lot with the spot instances to be on the thin margins. They have I assume supermarkets.
All the food industry will. Will see apart from banking of course. But this is for a general perspective. But banking is. It's. It's also there the margins are not that high. So you need to play on the thin. On the thin line and you have to be aware of costs.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I really like your comparison of finOps and security. I also like. I. I think there are a lot of. A lot of parallels what we can learn from security domain in FinOps as well especially also introducing things like FinOps reviews.
We're very familiar with the concept of UPSEC reviews UPSEC approvals before going into production. Like here we can reuse something like that. So have something like finops reviews. Making sure that there is someone who familiar with this best practices of cost of our architectures within the organization. Actually can we'll have a look on your architecture before you start you know deploying it before you start actually relying on it heavily in your organization. So it's also one of the ways how you can embrace Costa work.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Yeah yeah.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: I mean yeah. Nice. I also like to compare between. Because people often feel feel the same also about security about phenops. You know, it's like people developers like leave me alone, let me do my work. But no, you need to take care also for security and take care also about the cost because eventually well we know what happened if you don't.
And the world focus comes a lot of offense and we see that now also from cost intelligent dashboards. We have not only a dashboard for AWS but also we have for assurance for gcp. And actually you can do. You can make a joint right dashboard in which you show all this data.
So this is very good. And what I was wondering was like when can we expect to see or what are your thoughts about having a Kudos dashboard based on Focus information?
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Well, it's, it's a good question. So we started, as you said, with separate dashboards for other cloud providers because there was ask from customers. They wanted to use one BI tool to see the data in one single place.
And we also learned that building as an insightful and as detailed dashboards for multiple cloud providers which have their own structures of building data, it's quite tough and quite challenging. So that's why when Focus Project appeared I was super excited and was joining the early Focus calls and I was very excited about that project because it actually simplifies a lot for FinOps community.
So when you have normalized data across multiple cloud providers then we as AWS we let's say officially joined the FinOps Foundation. We joined Focus Project as well and after that we contributed to the Focus project as maintainers and contributors and we also have, we support focus, we deliver data in focus format together with the data.
We couldn't not to deliver a dashboard to help people not just get the data but also visualize it and get sense out of the data.
And the next step which we took is we now updated our GCP and Azure solutions to allow actually practitioners and customers to bring data from other cloud providers in focus format to AWS and join them in single focus dashboard. Because one of the challenges with reporting is not only normalizing the data but Also all the ETLs getting data in one place. It's as challenging as normalization. So we want to simplify it a bit. So we now provide solutions how to get all the data in one place, how to plug it in to Focus Dashboard. Now as for amount of insights and details which you can get. So at the moment, you know, now, now we support Focus 1.0 in GA. Now specification, specification itself is evolving. 1.1 version was announced and I see a lot of, you know, improvements and there is a quite exciting roadmap in Focus project as well. So with maturity of specification we will be able to deliver more insights, more details, more reporting, more kind of actionable things which customers can use. So the way I see it is with maturity, increase of maturity of focus, with you know, all the feedback and all the new things which appear in focus, it would allow us to build something very, very close to what we've built on top of cost and usage report.
But obviously it took us, you know, to like four and a half years to build kudos.
So I'm not saying that it Will take us four and a half years to build something something like that based on focus. But but at the same time it's also quite an effort because behind every single visual there is a story, there is details what you can do with this because we try to also to have this kind of so what question to pass. So what question for every visual which we build, what you can do when you see it, is it actionable at all? So yeah as I see it I think the Focus Dashboard will be evolving. We will be adding more features to it but I see it more like a parallel growth of focus specification and then appearing in new features and capabilities on our dashboard and overall capabilities of anyone who use Focus regardless of the tool like either querying grow data or any BI tool as well. So it's quite interesting journey and I hear a lot of positive feedback from customers about Focus.
For now I usually see at the moment Focus Dashboard it's more like high level dashboards which you can use to get more like general understanding of your total cost of ownership around multiple cloud providers. But then if you want to learn about depth and breadth of optimizations what you can improve what's the actionable insights. You still need to go for example to kudos for AWS but yeah we will be there in some time.
[00:38:11] Speaker C: I wonder how it will look in the next few years when yeah let's see when focus will be revolved and new graph are going to be out there.
Wow, I'm you know I'm a big fan. I'm looking forward to see what what's going also from from graph perspective it's the quicksight will be also evolved. This is something that I yeah actually.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: Quicksight evolving like comparing quicksight at the moment with where it it. It was like four and a half years ago when we started. It's like it's way way way more features set product let's say and there is much way more capabilities now from both like API perspective what you can automate on top of this what you can use for embedding what you can use for and also up to visual capabilities and features. So now before RE invent Quixel launched this high charts a type of visual. So it kind of brings the full variety of completely new type of visualizations where you can use this high charts kind of visual definition within the quicksight and have absolutely mind blowing you know like very rich visualizations which were not available in quicksight before we started to do something like that in support cases Dashboard which we released recently before re invent we will invest more in this facelifting of the visuals based on this new capability in our existing dashboards as well. So we are very excited about it. And another quite significant feature which was added by Quicksight team is ability to copy visuals between the dashboards. And why it's important because when you deploy your dashboard and then you want to customize it like a lot of customers love this capability to you know, reshuffle widgets, maybe add something which they like.
But the challenge was that when you customize your dashboard you and we update the new version of our provided by us dashboard template and you update your default dashboard. But there was no way to bring this new features which we bring in the default dashboard to your customized one. So it was a challenge for customers how then we can get this new great widgets to our customized dashboard. And now Quicksight supports the copy so you literally can go and copy whatever you like from the new version to your custom dashboard, place them in in the place where you see it maybe better than we and without any significant effort. So it's and you know like there is a very nice and interesting roadmap in QuickSight for 2025. A lot of generic capabilities added to Quicksight, ability to integrate with Amazon Q and all the things. So it's, it's a lot of interesting features ahead and I think it will also to you know to shape the way customers approach the data. You know because now with all this gen capabilities I think there will be more movement into you know like not getting the visual visualizations answering your questions but trying to get basically your questions answered by LLMs with having access to your data. So overall I think it will be quite a shift in that direction.
[00:42:19] Speaker B: No, that's, that's great. I mean I think I also agree that that would be probably what it's evolving now like being able to process the info to ingest it to the gen AI and the gen AI being able to provide like additional information and solving questions that you may may have already in place. Yeah it's going to be crazy. I think in 2025 the amount of things that we are going the amount of things that we are going to see and integrations we are going to see within the AI now that is more stabilized and we see that it's more stable now what we are going to be able to do with that.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Yeah but for Finops community also Genai it brings quite interesting challenging in challenges not just how to use it for phenos but also how to track the you know the cost of gen AI services, how to optimize them because there is a lot. A lot of interesting new concepts appear which were not very. How to say very common. If you look at traditional applications where you have compute storage, some you know, databases here it's a slightly different shift of paradigm.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Yeah especially with the tokenization and all the generation that you are not sure like how to control it because it's something that is generative. It's very different from what we are used to.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: Should we ask shorter questions?
Yeah, it prompts like something like that.
[00:43:56] Speaker B: Be concise Amigon says and it always extends more and more and it doesn't say anything after all.
But yeah. Well I think it's a great point to close up. I think everyone knows where we can find it. We will put the links to your LinkedIn and to the dashboards GitHub and all the information that is available there. So it's been a pleasure. I think there is a lot of valuable information that you have dropped today and looking forward to your team developments in 2025 and yeah we'll be ready to your post to know every new update in Kudos.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's always pleasure and yeah I just wanted to say thank you again to all of our customers and all our team. It's just being part of this is just absolutely amazing journey.
Thanks.
[00:44:57] Speaker C: Thank you very much Yuri. It was my pleasure and very richful and I hope that in the future we we host you again and hear more news.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks everyone and see you in the next episode.
[00:45:12] Speaker C: Bye bye bye guys.
